The awkward silence gave Isamu enough time check on the data simulations he was running and then begin another set.
“Biochemistry.” He replied. “With a slight specialization in neurochemistry.”
Though he had worked on a variety of research projects with his fellow IRIS researchers, some not even in his chosen field. Working with Dr. Malcom on a survey of mass extinction events was fascinating.
“I am currently doing a significant amount of research into brainwave patterns and neurotransmitter levels associated with altered states of consciousness.”
Rekker is interested now, more than he was previously. He had a good bit of knowledge about how the brain worked from his his own treatments over time though it wasn't exactly scientific.
"My brain will fuck up your work." Rekker laughed quietly. "I have sections of my brain that aren't right so I don't get inhibitory effects or respond to serotonin properly. I was in a research study a few years ago where they were trying to understand the brain chemistry of killing yourself."
Rekker knew enough though that he could talk about what went on his brain, in layman's terms but might struggle with too much scientific jargon. "I have functional differences in my prefrontal cortex and the receptors there are shitty."
“Whether or not your brain would fuck up my work, as you put it, would be entirely dependent on what I was intending to measure.”
Despite the delicate subject matter, once the topic of conversation turned scientific, Isamu was mentally sorting through the veritable catalog of information he had read on the neurobiology of depressive disorders, the multi-faceted developmental and signalling actions of serotonin in regulating depressive symptoms, and even the glutamate-driven alterations in synaptic connectivity within the pre-frontal cortex. He nodded as Rekker spoke,
“Was the study successfully peer-reviewed and published?” He eventually asked. “I would like to read it.”
Rekker had no qualms about discussing his mental health. He had been doing so for years with doctors and several of Hexed's songs referenced conditions he endured.
"I'm not sure." Rekker never asked for the study. "The doctor is still researching how suicidal brains function. I've met with him for other studies."
He thanks the waiter for more coffee and thinks about what this particular researcher had told him. "The last one was about my orbital prefrontal cortex. I don't remember exactly but he mentioned that part malfunctioning makes people unable to moderate their desire to harm themselves, and others, and can cause damaging situations to not register normal reactions like recoiling or fear."
Rekker paused because he was trying to parse his memories. "HPA hyperactivity causes anxiety that apparently makes everything else worse including the serotonin problems."
Isamu nodded. “Yes, I do recall a few studies comparing structural differences in that region of the brain with deficient cognitive control and impaired decision-making in the context of intense emotions. And a few following similar changes in the ventrolateral prefrontal cortex and dorsal prefrontal cortex.”
Of course, there were other studies on other parts of the brain - the amygdala, the anterior cingulate cortex, the pons, for example - that also played a role in impulsive behaviors, heightened stress reactions, difficulty regulating emotions or perceiving pain. Honestly, finding a true biosignature for suicidal thoughts and major depressive disorder was still a massive challenge. The same findings weren’t always detected across multiple studies.
“Some of these differences seem to be be more pronounced among those who employed violent methods in their suicide attempt, though there are enough conflicting findings that many individuals with suicidal thoughts and behaviors may not exhibit consistent structural differences at all.” He mused aloud.
Rekker nodded his agreement. "Those changes and my adrenaline seeking nature can get dangerous. I like the feeling of thinking I might die if I do something."
Thankfully, Rekker had found healthy outlets like surfing, skydiving, being on stage, racing and some other less than deadly activities. That didn't always work but he was mostly stable with his usual outlets, therapy, and medication, mostly anyway.
"I'm a slicer." Rekker admitted which was why he often wore long sleeves to hide all the scars. "I don't keep knives or razors or anything in the house and tell restaurants to take them off the tables." Or realistically, one of his companions remembered to tell them. "I'm a wrench in some studies since I am an anxiety ridden, self-loathing, uninhibited, thrill-seeking, major depressive with suicidal ideation. I probably have all the malfunctions."
And that was a bit of his self-loathing slipping in, believing he was broken. Even though he was doing better he still felt like he was a mess in ways humans shouldn't be.
Isamu was startled at first by the frank first-hand description of such behavior, but remained stoic. This was still a scientific discussion after all. And he found himself glancing at the place setting, even though the server had taken away both their plates and silverware by this point.
“Those aforementioned structural abnormalities, hyperactivity in certain portions of the hippocampus and amygdala, and potential underactivation of thalamic areas involved in pain, would be quite the combination.” He agreed, though not with a tone that would suggest he thought Rekker was broken. “Quite the case study.”
Rekker was nearing 30 years of talking about his mental health with people and well over 20 in therapy. He'd learned to be frank so people knew exactly what he was facing because otherwise they couldn't help him in the moments when he was no help to himself.
"I feel pain." Rekker mentioned between sips of coffee. "The wiring is wrong in my head. Pain feels better to me than it should." He wasn't going to say any more than that because it got into territory that he thought might make Isamu uncomfortable. "You're not the only one who's mentioned that. I've been through most of the psychiatric treatments available at some point. I've found a combination that keeps me functional about 90% of the time."
Which Rekker was pleased with now that he recognized there were moments, sometimes long stretches, where he was close to non-functional as a person.
“I do not mean to suggest that you do not feel it. I should have specified that I was not referring merely to the sensory processing of pain intensity. There is compelling evidence to suggest the affective processing of pain - its unpleasantness - may be different in individuals who participate in self-harming behaviors.” He corrected himself. “Not to mention the fact that pain is modulated by contextual stimuli, such as emotions, social factors or other perceptions.”
And that didn’t even begin to analyze the potential role of abnormal feedback in the striatal dopamine system, or dysfunctions of the hypothalamic-pituitary-adrenal axis and its altered secretion of stress hormones and affect on serotonin.
"Some people think that's how it works, you hurt yourself because you don't feel it." Rekker had heard that line of thinking more than once in his rounds with the media. "Sometimes I think I do it because I can feel it. I've heard theories that because the pain and pleasure receptors and areas are so close that it's easy for the wires to get crossed in brain development or the alterations to the brain from trauma."
Rekker considered that last statement for a long time and then nodded. "I like to be in control of the pain that's happening to me. I want to cause it directly or indirectly. I don't like when other people hurt me." He started laughing. "Except when I'm in a fight."
“I dare say wires being crossed is quite an appropriate metaphor, as fMRI studies have documented masochists activating brain areas involved in sensory processing rather than affective pain processing when they receive painful stimuli within that particular context.” He nodded. “But through involvement of the parietal operculum, which suggests additional cognitive evaluation, not the ventral striatum, which would suggest the processing of rewards.”
In other words, it was less about pleasure and more about memory and cognitive reevaluation. Which seemed to fit with Rekker’s desire to remain in control of his pain. At least partially.
"I don't understand all of that." Isamu had forged past Rekker's understanding of the medical terminology about his condition. While being curious he wasn't a scientist, though he did understand many of the scientific terms when it came to mental health.
"I know it feels like an addict getting a hit after being off for a long time." He could speak to that having both had a time of wrestling with drugs and alcohol. "I don't always realize how much I've done until I come out the other side. Things can trigger it starting too, like when a cokehead sees cocaine and can't resist. Sharp objects can trigger me the same way, especially if I'm already down."
“Hmm… That runs counter to what a number of studies have found, but that does not mean it cannot be ruled out. After all, opioid and dopaminergic systems and the HPA axis can both be activated either by psychoactive drugs or by behaviors. So it is still plausible that for a subset of cases, the same biological mechanisms support the development of addiction as well as self-harming behaviors.”
Rekker gave a non committal shrug. "I'm speaking as someone who was an addict and is still suicidal. Studies are only as good as the questions they ask."
Rekker had been in enough studies by this point but still stifled a laugh. "I don't just like pain when I'm trying to off myself or feel like shit."
He left the implications of what he was talking about unsaid for now, unless the twin asked.
Isamu’s eyes widened for a moment, though he felt no need to ask for clarification. He could easily read between the lines, and scoffed a hasty, “whatever releases dopamine in your nucleus accumbens, I suppose…”
That sort of thing was not a turn-on for the scientist. And unfortunately, very little scientific literature actually existed on that particular subject to fill in the gaps.
Rekker just shrugs and laughs at the reaction because what else can you really do? It takes all kinds of people and relationships were built on the right kind of strange coming together.
"When you're angry and depressed healthy outlets are important." Which was a more scientific approach to the shocking unspoken. "How's the number crunching going?"
It was time to change the subject even if he was amused and would, if it were one of the band, continue to harass.
![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png)
carisma_sensei
no subject
Date: 2022-03-10 06:37 pm (UTC)“Biochemistry.” He replied. “With a slight specialization in neurochemistry.”
Though he had worked on a variety of research projects with his fellow IRIS researchers, some not even in his chosen field. Working with Dr. Malcom on a survey of mass extinction events was fascinating.
“I am currently doing a significant amount of research into brainwave patterns and neurotransmitter levels associated with altered states of consciousness.”
no subject
Date: 2022-03-10 07:03 pm (UTC)"My brain will fuck up your work." Rekker laughed quietly. "I have sections of my brain that aren't right so I don't get inhibitory effects or respond to serotonin properly. I was in a research study a few years ago where they were trying to understand the brain chemistry of killing yourself."
Rekker knew enough though that he could talk about what went on his brain, in layman's terms but might struggle with too much scientific jargon. "I have functional differences in my prefrontal cortex and the receptors there are shitty."
no subject
Date: 2022-03-12 02:50 pm (UTC)Despite the delicate subject matter, once the topic of conversation turned scientific, Isamu was mentally sorting through the veritable catalog of information he had read on the neurobiology of depressive disorders, the multi-faceted developmental and signalling actions of serotonin in regulating depressive symptoms, and even the glutamate-driven alterations in synaptic connectivity within the pre-frontal cortex. He nodded as Rekker spoke,
“Was the study successfully peer-reviewed and published?” He eventually asked. “I would like to read it.”
no subject
Date: 2022-03-12 06:02 pm (UTC)"I'm not sure." Rekker never asked for the study. "The doctor is still researching how suicidal brains function. I've met with him for other studies."
He thanks the waiter for more coffee and thinks about what this particular researcher had told him. "The last one was about my orbital prefrontal cortex. I don't remember exactly but he mentioned that part malfunctioning makes people unable to moderate their desire to harm themselves, and others, and can cause damaging situations to not register normal reactions like recoiling or fear."
Rekker paused because he was trying to parse his memories. "HPA hyperactivity causes anxiety that apparently makes everything else worse including the serotonin problems."
no subject
Date: 2022-03-14 05:58 pm (UTC)Of course, there were other studies on other parts of the brain - the amygdala, the anterior cingulate cortex, the pons, for example - that also played a role in impulsive behaviors, heightened stress reactions, difficulty regulating emotions or perceiving pain. Honestly, finding a true biosignature for suicidal thoughts and major depressive disorder was still a massive challenge. The same findings weren’t always detected across multiple studies.
“Some of these differences seem to be be more pronounced among those who employed violent methods in their suicide attempt, though there are enough conflicting findings that many individuals with suicidal thoughts and behaviors may not exhibit consistent structural differences at all.” He mused aloud.
no subject
Date: 2022-03-14 06:47 pm (UTC)Thankfully, Rekker had found healthy outlets like surfing, skydiving, being on stage, racing and some other less than deadly activities. That didn't always work but he was mostly stable with his usual outlets, therapy, and medication, mostly anyway.
"I'm a slicer." Rekker admitted which was why he often wore long sleeves to hide all the scars. "I don't keep knives or razors or anything in the house and tell restaurants to take them off the tables." Or realistically, one of his companions remembered to tell them. "I'm a wrench in some studies since I am an anxiety ridden, self-loathing, uninhibited, thrill-seeking, major depressive with suicidal ideation. I probably have all the malfunctions."
And that was a bit of his self-loathing slipping in, believing he was broken. Even though he was doing better he still felt like he was a mess in ways humans shouldn't be.
no subject
Date: 2022-03-14 08:33 pm (UTC)“Those aforementioned structural abnormalities, hyperactivity in certain portions of the hippocampus and amygdala, and potential underactivation of thalamic areas involved in pain, would be quite the combination.” He agreed, though not with a tone that would suggest he thought Rekker was broken. “Quite the case study.”
no subject
Date: 2022-03-14 08:56 pm (UTC)"I feel pain." Rekker mentioned between sips of coffee. "The wiring is wrong in my head. Pain feels better to me than it should." He wasn't going to say any more than that because it got into territory that he thought might make Isamu uncomfortable. "You're not the only one who's mentioned that. I've been through most of the psychiatric treatments available at some point. I've found a combination that keeps me functional about 90% of the time."
Which Rekker was pleased with now that he recognized there were moments, sometimes long stretches, where he was close to non-functional as a person.
no subject
Date: 2022-03-14 11:07 pm (UTC)And that didn’t even begin to analyze the potential role of abnormal feedback in the striatal dopamine system, or dysfunctions of the hypothalamic-pituitary-adrenal axis and its altered secretion of stress hormones and affect on serotonin.
no subject
Date: 2022-03-15 03:09 am (UTC)Rekker considered that last statement for a long time and then nodded. "I like to be in control of the pain that's happening to me. I want to cause it directly or indirectly. I don't like when other people hurt me." He started laughing. "Except when I'm in a fight."
no subject
Date: 2022-03-15 12:03 pm (UTC)In other words, it was less about pleasure and more about memory and cognitive reevaluation. Which seemed to fit with Rekker’s desire to remain in control of his pain. At least partially.
no subject
Date: 2022-03-15 06:00 pm (UTC)"I know it feels like an addict getting a hit after being off for a long time." He could speak to that having both had a time of wrestling with drugs and alcohol. "I don't always realize how much I've done until I come out the other side. Things can trigger it starting too, like when a cokehead sees cocaine and can't resist. Sharp objects can trigger me the same way, especially if I'm already down."
no subject
Date: 2022-03-17 12:01 pm (UTC)“Hmm… That runs counter to what a number of studies have found, but that does not mean it cannot be ruled out. After all, opioid and dopaminergic systems and the HPA axis can both be activated either by psychoactive drugs or by behaviors. So it is still plausible that for a subset of cases, the same biological mechanisms support the development of addiction as well as self-harming behaviors.”
Comorbidity at its finest. Wires getting crossed.
no subject
Date: 2022-03-17 06:46 pm (UTC)Rekker had been in enough studies by this point but still stifled a laugh. "I don't just like pain when I'm trying to off myself or feel like shit."
He left the implications of what he was talking about unsaid for now, unless the twin asked.
no subject
Date: 2022-03-19 01:31 am (UTC)That sort of thing was not a turn-on for the scientist. And unfortunately, very little scientific literature actually existed on that particular subject to fill in the gaps.
no subject
Date: 2022-03-19 01:51 am (UTC)"When you're angry and depressed healthy outlets are important." Which was a more scientific approach to the shocking unspoken. "How's the number crunching going?"
It was time to change the subject even if he was amused and would, if it were one of the band, continue to harass.